Aight, I enjoy the joke too.
However! I encourage people to remember that grandpa joe is not a faker in the world he’s from!
Since the movie is what most peeps remember, and where the memes usually come from, the first thing to remember is that it’s a musical.
Musicals, by the established rules of the overall genre, do not reflect reality at all times. Even mostly dramatic musicals like Man of LaMancha break some reality in order to function as musicals. Take the scene with the ruffians and “Dulcinea” as an example.
Second, the movie. Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory is essentially a fantasy piece. You’ve got the Oompa Loompas as prime evidence of that. Orange skinned humanoids that do not exist in the real world (jokes aside). Many things in the chocolate factory break the laws of physics or otherwise bend reality. There’s geese laying golden eggs, ffs.
Third, the theme of the movie isn’t actually torturing children. The theme of the movie is the redemptive and uplifting power of dreams. That’s achieved by the journey of Charlie getting his golden ticket and everything in his life getting better.
Grandpa Joe hasn’t been laying there in bed faking it (though, in movie, there’s never anything about the grandparents being unable to move or walk at all, they’re just frail and weak).
He is in his eighties or nineties.
What gets him up and dancing isn’t that he was faking and forgot to, it’s joy.
GJ is transformed by joy, by happiness. His grandson has, through luck or destiny, gotten the golden ticket to a brighter, better life! This doesn’t trick Joe into forgetting his infirmity. It gives him the joy to overcome it.
Joe’s transformation, rejuvenation, is because he is so filled with joy that his grandson will have a new life, that it changes him into the grandfather he wished he could be. Don’t forget that he had sacrificed his one real pleasure to give Charlie a chance at that.
But, look, I know that the grandpajoehate is ostensibly a meme. It’s a joke poking fun at the very musical rules that allow a bed-bound person to magically be cured in the first place. But it never acknowledges the fact that his spontaneous rejuvenation is magic, and that the magic is the magic of love.
In a cynical world, we believe that love is not transformative because the real world grinds us down. But love can be transformative for us too. We just have to be willing to let it work.
I know its you Joe you cant fool me
With that fucking coke nail and all
This was nice. Thanks for taking the time to write this up!
Hmmm, I just thought he was depressed.
Bro really wrote an essay
You wish you loved something this much.
oh I agree with him, just saying
Nah, my essays are longer than that.
Are we bringing the fuck grampa Joe community to Lemmy?
By being on the Internet you agree we all hate Grandpa Joe. It seems redundant.
I always think the reason they never got out of bed is they had a 24/7 old person orgy, so the other three were always fucking grandpa Joe.
We know what sort of porn you watch.
Also, username checks out.
Yes please, we need this place to me more like le epic narwhal beacon place
I mean… you gonna do it?
Yes. We’re getting tired of these corporate handouts. Grandpa Joe needs to get off the corporate teat.
Depression sucks. Grandpa Joe just needed a pick me up.
Also - and I’m only familiar with the 1971 film version with Gene Wilder - Grandpa Joe is clearly the only friend, companion, and available adult in Charlie’s life who he can talk to. His mother is too busy from working to support the family. He doesn’t have friends or money to spend. And Grandpa Joe does show some guilt and awareness about not contributing more to the family. He has that great line when Charlie tries to give him a nickel for tobacco: “When a loaf of bread looks like a banquet, I’ve no right buying tobacco.”
Given the choice of living like that burdening my family or not I would choose death.
Fuck grandpa Joe. That is all.
Is Grandpa Joe Caillou grown up?
I would have done the same thing. Being lazy is cool.
Hell yeah, Fuck work
🤙
Yeh. People give grandpa Joe a hard time but what about the other 3 grifters. And let’s not forget the kid. He could have easily worked 16hours a day in a coal mine and instead treats his family like shit by buying chocolate for himself out of shameless greed
Does nobody know that all the grandparents were in their ninties?
Sure - but if Joe’s got enough energy to fuck around in a chocolate factory with his grandson, then he’s got enough energy to work part-time to help his desperately poor family
Have you ever actually met someone that old? Mustering up a whole day’s worth of energy can take them out for the rest of the month.
Yeah, I have - and the ones that could walk were constantly having to sit down, not doing bloody jigs like Joe did upon learning about the Golden Ticket.
Grandpa Joe has significantly more energy than his peers, that much I can tell - and the fact he let his poor family suffer rather than put that energy to use working even just a day a week is part of why I hate Grandpa Joe
My grandma could have mustered a single jig and one day of walking in her 90s. She definitely would not have been able to work a part time job. I think you just want an excuse to hate grandpa Joe, so you invent one even though on proper scrutiny it doesn’t hold up to reality. But you don’t need to justify hating someone, you’re allowed to just hate them for no good reason. Instead of throwing all old people under the bus for the sake of hating Joe, just let the hate flow through you without needing to find a reason for it.
I have already prefaced in another reply that this Grandpa Joe hate isn’t that serious, it’s poking fun at the fact he goes from bed-bound to suddenly facing and jiving as though it were nothing…
Having said that, even if he couldn’t work part time, if he isn’t at least as bed-bound as the others he could at least help out around the house so Mum can go work so they don’t have to eat cabbage soup every night, rather than dedicating her life to caring for a bed’s worth of old people.
I’m aware, my grandpa Joe defence isn’t that serious either lol.
Maybe he offered to help but the family said no? I know my grandma sometimes grumbled about her kids and grandkids never letting her do anything cause they were always like “it’s alright grandma we can do it for you”. Maybe grandpa Joe was being forced to stay in bed by rhe family because of his age and he saw the factory trip as a chance to finally get out of bed for a day? Perhaps poor grandpa Joe is simply misunderstood.
You can really help a household by doing very little. Even if all you are capable of is cleaning the table once a day that is just one more thing no one else has to do. My youngest child can now finally put her own clothing away if I put it in her room. Which saves me about 30 minutes or so a week. Basically yes you are right. Joe doesn’t have to be pulling a plow but if he can do literally anything, which he can, he can help.
So fuck him and fuck the transformative power of dreams bullshit
You do understand that the film isn’t a documentary? It’s a family film. You’d be the guy complaining that in episode 2F09, when Itchy plays Scratchy’s skeleton as a xylophone, he strikes the same rib in succession yet produces two clearly different notes.
Edit: Actually, there’s a lot more to say. Your comment is simply wrong on every point it makes.
Firstly, you mischaracterise the elderly, maybe from a myopic view based on personal anecdotes. People who live active lives before retirement tend to live relatively active lives after retirement. The reason they may choose to live more cautious lifestyles is because mundane injuries for a young person can spell a death sentence for the elderly. In over 65s, a simple fall can lead to a hip fracture, which has a one-year mortality rate of 21% if the patient undergoes surgery; this mortality rate rises to 70% if they do not undergo surgery.
Secondly, if you earnestly believe that a 90 year old, over 20 years into retirement, needs to polish their work boots, get on their bike, and find work to support their family, then you’re either mentally deficient, a child with zero experience of the job market, or a tory. Either way, you’re detached from reality. Forgetting the fact that a retiree has earned their retirement, a company is simply less likely to take on an over 65, either through some judgment of their ability or out of fear that a common workplace slip can turn into a death.
You really need to get some perspective on how the world works, and maybe a hobby that isn’t making ill-informed ultra-literalised criticisms of family films. Next you’ll be saying that Grandpa Joe should learn to code so he can remote hustle from his bed.
Bloody heck mate, lighten up a bit. Everyone hating on Grandpa Joe is aware it’s a family film, it’s just a rather conspicuous plot-hole that he went from not moving for years to prancing and dancing about.
But if you’re going to be a pain in the arse about it…
Firstly, you mischaracterise the elderly, maybe from a myopic view based on personal anecdotes. People who live active lives before retirement tend to live relatively active lives after retirement. The reason they may choose to live more cautious lifestyles is because mundane injuries for a young person can spell a death sentence for the elderly. In over 65s, a simple fall can lead to a hip fracture, which has a one-year mortality rate of 21% if the patient undergoes surgery; this mortality rate rises to 70% if they do not undergo surgery.
Yeah, but we know Grandpa Joe has supppsedly been bed-bound like the other elders for years. He may have once lived an active lifestyle, but he ain’t active now, and (especially when you’re older) muscle you don’t use disappears fast.
Secondly, if you earnestly believe that a 90 year old, over 20 years into retirement, needs to polish their work boots, get on their bike, and find work to support their family, then you’re either mentally deficient, a child with zero experience of the job market, or a tory. Either way, you’re detached from reality.
Damn, you really throwing the word Tory around like that… I’m firmly working class, I know struggle - and I do think that if you’re barely hanging onto existence like Charlie’s family is, then anyone who can be working should be for the sake of your family to improve life even just a little bit.
It absolutely is cruel to suggest that someone retired should have to pick up their cap, but life can be cruel like that, and I think you’re detatched from reality acting like that sort of thing never happens - like nobody ever needs to come out of retirement for any reason ever.
Forgetting the fact that a retiree has earned their retirement, a company is simply less likely to take on an over 65, either through some judgment of their ability or out of fear that a common workplace slip can turn into a death.
True, but that doesn’t stop Grandpa Joe from trying - sure beats watching your family living destitute while you live bed-bound for years full well knowing you don’t need to be
You really need to get some perspective on how the world works, and maybe a hobby that isn’t making ill-informed ultra-literalised criticisms of family films. Next you’ll be saying that Grandpa Joe should learn to code so he can remote hustle from his bed.
Again, chill the fuck out mate, it’s way more light-hearted than you’re being. Everyone’s aware it’s a family film.
Having said that, my perspective is that the world can be cruel at times, and that Grandpa Joe should be doing his part to help his destitute family rather than lying in bed if he’s got enough energy to start dancing and singing, and fucking around with his Grandson in a chocolate factory - I think you’re out of touch if you think everybody hits 65 and suddenly s financially set for the rest of their lives.
Also, certainly given the original film’s setting, I suspect that neither of those would’ve been a thing yet.
Damn, you really throwing the word Tory around like that
If it walks like a Tory, talks like a Tory, and regurgitates bootstraps rhetoric like a Tory…
Everyone from a poor or working class family understands that poverty isn’t something you can graft your way out of. Also, a man described as “96 and a half” and the most fragile among Charlie’s grandparents, managed to muster the energy to celebrate his grandson winning a prize and then accompanied him on a half day tour round a local factory. If you think that’s sufficient to classify him as work capable, then you’ve got a bright future conducting disability assessments for the DWP.
Just to preface this, the fuck Grandpa Joe train is meant to be a light-hearted thing, I’m only taking it seriously because other people are refuting it like it’s a serious thing. Anyways…
If it walks like a Tory, talks like a Tory, and regurgitates bootstraps rhetoric like a Tory…
Talks like a Tory, really now?
I ain’t talking about bootstraps or breaking out of debt, that ain’t easy at all. I’m talking about making enough extra money that maybe your family don’t have to have cabbage soup every night - a little luxury, not a lot to ask for.
Everyone from a poor or working class family understands that poverty isn’t something you can graft your way out of. Also, a man described as “96 and a half” and the most fragile among Charlie’s grandparents, managed to muster the energy to celebrate his grandson winning a prize and then accompanied him on a half day tour round a local factory. If you think that’s sufficient to classify him as work capable, then you’ve got a bright future conducting disability assessments for the DWP.
I understand that too, as I said I ain’t on about that, and I think you’ve misunderstood me thinking I am.
Again, from the 90 year olds I know, that jig is more energy than I’ve ever seen displayed from them, especially someone that was supposedly bed-bound.
And if he really is the most fragile, why aren’t the others helping out around the house at the very least so Mum can go work, rather than dedicate her life caring for an entire double bed’s worth of old people on top of her family living on one person’s wage?
You do have a point. My wife has a patient who is 95 and the fact that she can walk to the store, buy eggs, bring them home, and cook them is very impressive.
That’s not really how that works
One day of basically just walking around like a tourist isn’t quite the same as a 9-5 at even low intensity jobs
Also, he’s probably not able to find work, it’s the 60s-70s in the UK and Joe only ever worked at Wonka’s, odds are he doesn’t have the qualifications to work for anyone else, and anyone he might be able to are probably covered by the VERY intense NC order Wonka probably made his workers sign after the breach of his IP.
In the United Kingdom, and therefore Wales, where Roald Dahl is from had an old age pension for all of Dahl’s life. So I don’t think forcing old people to work to death is the point. Blaming old pension accessible people for not working is the same as blaming children for not working in my opinion.
They’ve probably worked all their life and paid taxes for it. They deserve the rest.
How does that make sense? People back then had a kid in their teens.
Wait do we have a c/grandpajoehate
Be the change you want to see in the world!
Willy Wonka owned slaves.
And seriously harmed children by bringing them into a workplace that he knew was not safe.
It should bother any decent person what he did. If they really did suffer from animal attacks he could have provided them with weapons. Hell, I am reasonable. He could have sold them guns and made a profit. “Ok peeps, work in my factory and I will pay you. You can use that money to buy stuff that will kill those animals”
There’s actually an interesting deep dive into this.
Weren’t they paid in chocolate, their preferred currency?
I have a hunch that it wasn’t their preferred currency.
In the first edition of Dahl’s novel, Oompa Loompas were Black pygmies Willy Wonka imported from “the deepest and darkest part of the African jungle,” according to Jeremy Treglown’s Roald Dahl: A Biography. In 1970, the NAACP issued a statement expressing concerns about the racist portrayal of the Oompa Loompas in light of the then-upcoming film. Dahl himself showed sympathy for their stance, and re-imagined them in the 1973 edition as having “golden-brown hair” and “rosy-white” skin.
Despite that change in description, the Oompa Loompas’ exploitative origin remained. Wonka smuggled them from their home to work at his factory. They worked tirelessly in exchange for cocoa beans, even as the chocolatier earned real money for their labor. They were prisoners restricted to areas inside the factory. In Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Willy Wonka learned the tribal language when negotiating a deal with the Oompa Loompas, but he was proud that “they all speak English now.”
He said he was going to give up tobacco! What else do you people want from him?!?!
Let’s also remember that Willy Wonka fired all his workers and replaced them with slaves, in the original draft of the book they were people taken from Africa, so pretty much resembles slavery verbatim.
I’m not going to go too in depth with this because there’s a whole video already breaking it down in entirety (you can find it here.
Fuck Grandpa Joe and all, but the guy in Saving Private Ryan who stands on the stairs while his squad mate is being killed just inside the door usually gets my vote for biggest piece of shit in cinema history.
This sounds like a moral position until actually having one’s life threatened. There’s no reason to give bravery credit to a statement. That scene showed the paralysis effect of our brain, the ENTIRE POINT is that he was unable to save his friend. Same point is referenced multiple times in the book, and once more(without nominal reference) in the series. Spielberg and Hanks saved their audience of most of the visible anguish and tears in the interwoven interviews. Honestly, the author of the book saves the audience from details, too. It was all THAT BAD.
So.
The folks who said it “wasn’t that bad” and “Hillary evil”, nearly in the same breath, have an accessible platform with an audience that can presume engagement (including purchasing). Jones even attacked parents of murdered children with his newfound power. Confirming that infamous line about absolute (in his small pond) power: it corrupts absolutely.Idk how we got from saving private Ryan to Alex Jones but I enjoyed the ride. Seriously though, thanks for the necessary context and details!
Honestly I heard one of my nieces or nephews in my head saying “So what?” because that’s their thing lately and the tangent fell freely from my brainmeats.
I’m not surprised, I got the vibe this is something you feel very passionate about that the tangents just come naturally at this point. Maybe I’m projecting cuz that’s where I’m at haha.
I think you missed the point of that scene
Everyone thinks they’re better than those put regularly in high stress real life and death scenarios.
Nobody really understands it until it happens to them. Unfortunately it’s the nature of the human brain.
Everyone thinks a panic attack can be pushed through with sheer willpower too. They also don’t understand the difference between garden variety anxiety and a full blown panic attack.
Yeah, maybe. Though what if Grandpa Joe is chronically ill with waxing and waning debility. There are lots of folks in that boat. Maybe he was just having a very good week. One of the chief complaints I hear from friends that are so stricken is that when they are having an ok day, and are out doing something important or essential or even fun, they are seen by some dillweed that takes it as proof they are a lazy, shiftless malingerer.
Why does Spiderman have a boner in the 2nd picture???
Don’t kink shame.
I think it’s his knee.
Dude you’re gonna be really disappointed when you finally see a real boner
Seriously, I would have so much preferred the boy to tell his grandpa Joe not to come since he is always so sick, and take his mom or dad instead
You savages must attack everything. LOL
