You must log in or register to comment.
I know, isn’t it great?
You jest. But no, communism is horrible.
Like capitalism isn’t also horrible?
As a system, it’s the best one so far.
It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.
Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
It’s almost as if authoritarian/
liberallibertarian and capitalism/socialism are orthogonal directions on the political compassTo be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.
It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
Libertarian*, but yeah.
Removed by mod
You know that communism isn’t the same thing as stalinism at all right?
Was fine for the smurfs
You’ve obviously never read anything about communism or socialism.
But where are the good outcomes of communism? I agree that communism is terrible does not make much sense as a general statement.
There are a lot of benefits to it, like no real central leadership (more like central steering, not really iron fisted dictators which is what most implementations of it turned out to be), abolishing the monetary system (if implemented all the way), communes decide for themselves, good free healthcare, people are at the center of the system, not money/profit, etc.
If you abolish the monetary system, how do people acquire goods and services and get compensated for their labor?
Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.
Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
So labor vouchers are money that give special treatment to people who do undesirable tasks? Or are they forced upon people at random, like a temporary forced labor lottery?
That requires a different mindset and (maybe) a different level of eveolution. Food is free, you take what you need. Services are free, if your house needs something fixed, you call the adequate people, they do the job, that’s it. Same for healthcare, you just go to the doctor, no bill, you just leave (we used to have that around here). Tech products are free, you take what you need (TV, stereo, phone, PC, etc.). You go to work and do the same as everyone else, do your job and go home.
This is a very simplified version and as I said, it requires a different mindset. We’re not used to that right now, it’s alien to us.
You have to put someone in charge of distributing the goods and services, set laws to make interactions between parties fair, and divy up resources, and remove/rehabilitate criminals, and that inherently creates a power imbalance. How do you suggest we keep the leaders beholden to the governed in this system so they dont abuse this power?
Oh come on, that is such a lazy argument. I suppose you’re an economics PhD then?
If you’re going to debate a topic - and especially if you’re going to make such a bold claim - you have a duty to learn and understand the topic you are debating.
You’ve neglected that duty.
Again, a lazy statement. You’re supposing that I don’t know a thing because I don’t agree with you. That is a wrong supposition altogether, certainly some sort of a logical fallacy, and also, most importantly, this is linuxmemes, sir.
Derail the conversation… OK, now I know you’re just parroting what others have told you all your life.
A new person comes to join the lazy statement club. Welcome! If you think I should take you folks seriously, however, perhaps you should try forming actual arguments.
Communism and socialism are primarily social orders, not economic ones. Yes, there must be an economic order in place, but as a derivative of the social order, to serve the social order and make it better, to grow and mature. That is not the case with democracy and capitalism.
Na, humans are just really good at making other living beings suffer, no matter the system. Communism is certainly not a pleasant system to imagine, however it is not inherently worse or better than others that we know.
What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory.
Yeah in theory it sounds pretty darn great
Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes.
Basically we’re looking at the choice between Star Trek and Mad Max.
Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism.
So which is capitalism? The world of Star Trek contains technology that has brought humanity (and other species) to a state of extreme abundance. They generate food from energy and they have almost infinite energy. The situation is so much better than the real world that probably any system would work just fine. One of the biggest reasons why we need to have economic systems is scarcity.
Capitalism can’t outlast automation
That’s what they thought of factorization as well, but it outlasted it just fine. Same thing will happen with more advanced forms of automation, but there will be growing pains certainly.
Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.
Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.
Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society?
That attempts to implement it invariably lead to shit, apparently.
Not everywhere, Yugoslavia is a good example of things being implemented the right way. There is always room for improvement of course, things were far from perfect… and perfect is just such a strong word, the idea is not to be perfect, to always improve it.
Didn’t that thing end pretty badly?
Yes, there was a war, but there were a lot of factors that contributed to that, including the US medling in internal affairs. In general, up until the death of Tito, everything was pretty much OK. The turmoils began after his death.
Do you know what most of the Communist countries that “invariably went to shit” had in common? One of the most powerful, red fearing countries in the world fucking with them relentlessly, despite the “fact” that “they would have failed if left to their own devices”
Yeah, that’s not a valid argument. Red fearing countries shouldn’t have been a problem if the ideology actually had been a good one. Communists were trying to spread the ideology just as much as others were trying to stop it.
The whole idea just sucks donkey balls and you’re having a weird nostalgia moment by proxy if you want to rewind the world back to it.
So when you see a group of kids building a sand castle together on the beach it’s ok to just walk over and kick it over right?
That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.
If the claim should truly have been that existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about, rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
I think it’s fair that what happens in real world affects how one thinks about a political theory.
So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit.
You don’t live in theory so it doesn’t matter if communism isn’t unpleasant in theory.
Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.
Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
Optional communalism I say, when you learn to cook, clean, or use a toilet, that’s communalism, you didn’t teach yourself and you didn’t pay by wiping your own arse.
I was just thinking about why many things on Linux are better. Like the install process on Linux is years ahead of windows.
Then it occurred to me that windows only improves things that can make them money. If you need to install windows, then you can deal with the crappy installer.
Linux devs improve the parts they think need to be better. The decisions are not guided by money and can be made without bias.
Now that you’ve got the idea apply it to everything in capitalist society. Especially if something is owned by shareholders.
Sounds like the decisions about what to make, how to make it and for whom to make it are done by the people doing the work. 🤔🫢
Linux devs improve the parts they think need to be better. The decisions are not guided by money and can be made without bias.
Sounds pretty communist
Most people don’t install windows. It comes pre installed on something they bought. Microsoft probably puts more time into automating the process.
Also, last time I installed windows it was a breeze. I haven’t installed Linux in at least a decade, so I can’t speak for that.
Try installing debian some time, the installer makes windows’ installer feel like its for a piece of software you got of a sketchy site that wants to install 16 other things not even related to it
I mean, sounds exactly like the Windows installer to me
We must be using different installers then, because between the amount of telemetry you have to turn off, the dark patterns, and the insistence on using a Microsoft account the whole experience reminds me of installing one of those “driver updaters” when I was a kid and before I learned that was a very bad idea
The install process on windows is clicking a few buttons.
For the vast majority of users it’s a way better experience.
The install process on windows is clicking a few buttons.
That’s the default tracking experience, if you fall for all the dark patterns. Was a while ago, hunh?
Again the vast vast majority of users don’t care. And that’s their target audience.
From my experience(installing windows 10, 11, linux mint and nobara), installing linux is way easier than installing windows
When the program is free, it’s socialism. The more free the program is, the more socialism it is. When the source is free, it’s communism.
Ironically, the freer the source, the less communism.
GPL: our source is free and yours must be too.
BSD/MIT: our source is free and you can’t blame us.
Public domain: do whatever the hell you want.
Microsoft loves open source nowadays.
People do a huge amount of their work for free.
They’re also heavily invested in Linux for the cloud. So any work done there helps them.
The only thing Microsoft is investing in is marketing to fool people into thinking they’re your friend. Remember that Copilot is automated open source license violation at scale. They’re building a tool to take your work, without crediting you, so others can use it without compensating you.
This is “love” in the same way an abusive relationship is “love”.
Do you think it’s a good idea to adapt licenses to be able to disallow training models on the source code? Do you think this could be enforced? If so, how?
Yes. I’m strongly in favor of noncommercial clauses in licenses. Because fuck capitalism.
This was meant to be detached from commercial use, just on “training models”.
deleted by creator
With Microsoft, any love shown could well be the Embrace part of the strategy that will lead to Extend and then Extinguish just as soon as they can figure those parts out. They might already have a plan.
The fact they’ve been able to turn things to their advantage so far does not mean they don’t have such a plan. Or won’t ever have one.
The fact that so many people so firmly believe that MS is one of the good guys now is just bewildering to me. Like were they not alive in the 90s? This is classic embrace, extend, extinguish, as you say.
FWIW the 90s ended over 20 years ago. A lot of people were not alive yet, or were only children at the height of Microsofts tomfuckery.
The 90s ended 23 years ago. And to not just live through but also “care” about MsS doings in the 90s someone needs to be even older.
Its really not that far fetched that a lot of younger people may see MS in a more positive way than you do apparently.
Seems unlikely with how they work now. You also can’t really extinguish foss.
.Net is cross platform and open source as well now.
Maybe if Linux becomes a competitor in the desktop market. But I don’t see that happening any time soon.
Ah, the late 1900s when you could still pretend that Apple was the choice of the counterculture for no credible reason except for Apple marketing. Slacktivism, my dude. Worthless.
This meme is truly ancient. I bet those little iMacs go for a pretty penny on eBay now after everyone tossed them in the garbage circa 2003.
This makes me like it even more.
I find the irony of the kid being on a shitty early 00’s iMac to be hilarious here
That iconic mac was the icing on the
cakekekShit, I though at least one will be like “where linux” 🤣🤣🤣.
Steve Ballmer also throws chairs at employees.
Did Bill jump over them first?
Anyone know how I can program Anarchism?
Allow all code merges automatically
Anarchy is not absence of rules, it’s absence of hierarchy. So you could still collectively agree to certain rules for merges.
Basicaly democracy on steroids
work on decentralized technology like lemmy
The same way, generally. Work on decentralized, open source software. It’s modern Mutual Aid.
And here I thought I was programming a Bluetooth a2dp app… I guess C is for communism?
Holy shit, this is an old old meme. This image has got to be at least 25 years old
it’s a parody of this poster from early 2000s
You wouldn’t download the means of production!
Talk shit on FOSS, by comparing it to communism like it’s a bad thing, on Lemmy.
Now there’s a message this place will love, lol.
it seems like a pro-communist programming message to me. the red dude looks super cool and supportive.
It’s clearly a red scare parody.
Of course, and it’s an old image too, but it still amused me thinking of the contrast between the message and the current audience.
There isn’t, the message itself is satire. The audience is precisely who the message is for, it’s making fun of Microsoft comparing FOSS to Communism, parodying red scare propaganda.
Unless I’m misunderstanding you, of course.
Yeah, but why would Microsoft post this? They barely make any open-source software so why are they promoting FOSS development?
It’s a meme dude, it’s a play on poster from the early 2000’s about pirating media.
Okay but is this completely fake or was this an actual FOSS promotion poster and the creator of the meme wrote Microsoft on it?
It was a joke, a meme, nothing more, meant to amuse. No promotion intended.
Use the right tool for the job
