I would agree if I believed those places were actually capable of change. I do believe some red states are looking for the change. (North Carolina, Georgia, Montana are some examples.) I have family and friends in the south and the majority of people in those areas are amazing and don’t care about all these culture wars. But those in those areas that do are willing to do violence to achieve their goals. If you are a target of those that want to do harm, I can not in good conscience advice anything other than leaving. Currently women and LGBTQ+ individuals literally are in physical and mental danger. Those areas will kill them before giving up any more power. Flee if you can, and literally fight if you can’t. I guess that’s my main point. We’ve given those areas more than 200 years to get their shit together and have nothing to show for it.
It’s not defeatist it’s not letting your abuser have control over you especially when your life or the lives of your loved ones are in immediate Danger. I want to say find a politician that is using political violence against you and use actual violence, but you don’t have to when their somewhere willing to protect and give you freedom just 10 hours away. You can create change by simply walking away as well. Not everyone needs to be a martyr, not everyone can wait years or even months for the change they need. You can impact federal laws by not giving them your body for census and taxes. Back during the Jim crow south, I can’t imagine telling someone that they should hope for change while one of their relatives hangs from a tree or tell a parent of a raped little girl that’s now pregnant they need to be the ones standing and fighting. Fighting looks different and I support those that choose to fight. But no one is the Arbiter of what that looks like.
Part of the problem is that you can have a state consisting of 300 neckbeards and it will still have Senators and a Representative in Congress, and thus voting power on legislation. I don’t blame people for fleeing, but staying and making states blue will have a bigger effect on change.
First and most obvious hitting that critical mass… before you hit it, everything is hell, you are stuck with BS laws, and you can’t do anything about it. Your vote is worthless.
In my town this november there was one ballot issue… in short, it was summarized as "put a million dollars towards schools, build a new school on an unused empty lot owned by the school system, build a new sports field for one of the schools). Digging deeper that would be paid for by a proporty tax that would cost… up to 100 a year for people making over 150k.
So… the whole town was plastered in “vote no” signs, when I went to the polling place a guy outside asked me to “strongly consider voting no”. I was one of the 17% that voted yes.
So that basically tells me… demographically we need an insane change for the politics of this area to be less stupid, and that’s before factoring in that not only does it involve a HUGE change to reach 51%… but realistically we need more like 65-70% to counteract the inevitable gerymandering that will happen if we ever get anywhere close. I will be staying here, and I’d be happy to encourage all my progressive friends to stay and/or move here. But when it comes down to it, I’d be shocked if there is a swing in the next 50 years, and I certainly wouldn’t encourage anyone in a group that is likely to be directly oppressed to move here.
And what’s more, if you’re going to have kids it’s not fair to raise them in that environment; to draft them into a struggle as they mature; to bequeath upon them the battle that you likely wont live to see won.
I noped myself right out of America to a proper socialised democracy and now i live the American dream rather than spend my life and my kids lives fighting for it.
No. Flee. We’ve learned through experience that turning a red state blue is a pipe dream. You cannot change from within, a state with systemic problems that doesn’t want to change.
I urge everyone in a red state that it capable- to leave ASAP.
That’s the problem though. It leaves those less capable stuck with no hope of their situation ever improving. Conservatives can be outnumbered. The easy thing is not necessarily the right thing.
You know that we can’t remove them from the country, right? Your way of thinking is exactly why the damned conservatives are as strong as they are. Ultimately you are giving them their best chance at taking even more political power. You should be ashamed of yourself for leaving those weaker and less capable than yourself to just be consumed by dogs. You are a coward and no better than them. One day they will be coming for you. Just know that.
Keep doing things the same way and see how things go. Best of luck. I’m safe and sound in my blue state where things work the way they’re supposed to. And we made it here on very little by the way. We both had minimum wage jobs in Florida. We now have thriving lives in Seattle.
If I did that, I would be telling my sister “Sucks to be you. I got out.” She can’t leave because of a custody agreement. She and her children are stuck with these laws. If the number of people you are talking about leave, that will ensure things with never get better for my sister, nieces, and nephew, that the laws will get worse and worse and they will legally not be allowed to move. But according to you, I should just tell her “sucks, I got mine”.
Sooo… status quo because some people have circumstances that don’t allow them to leave? You realize that yelling at people on Internet forums to “GO VOTE!” is pointless, right? There will be no grassroots movement to unseat these cowards from our government. Period. End of story. People have been fighting corruption and overrraching fascists since the early 60’s and it’s exponentially WORSE today than it ever was.
So doing nothing for the next several decades and repeating the past because a few people might get stuck is JUST AS selfish if not moreso as demanding people stay and suffer because if all can’t be helped- NONE must not be helped.
Red states need to be abandoned. Full stop. If you can’t leave- that fucking sucks. But nothing will change if everyone stays. History has proven this time and time again.
Don’t flee, fill. Change the demographic. Red turns blue with better numbers.
I would agree if I believed those places were actually capable of change. I do believe some red states are looking for the change. (North Carolina, Georgia, Montana are some examples.) I have family and friends in the south and the majority of people in those areas are amazing and don’t care about all these culture wars. But those in those areas that do are willing to do violence to achieve their goals. If you are a target of those that want to do harm, I can not in good conscience advice anything other than leaving. Currently women and LGBTQ+ individuals literally are in physical and mental danger. Those areas will kill them before giving up any more power. Flee if you can, and literally fight if you can’t. I guess that’s my main point. We’ve given those areas more than 200 years to get their shit together and have nothing to show for it.
Then the change has to come from outside. Just hoping they will change on their own is lazy and defeatist. Come help us fight.
It’s not defeatist it’s not letting your abuser have control over you especially when your life or the lives of your loved ones are in immediate Danger. I want to say find a politician that is using political violence against you and use actual violence, but you don’t have to when their somewhere willing to protect and give you freedom just 10 hours away. You can create change by simply walking away as well. Not everyone needs to be a martyr, not everyone can wait years or even months for the change they need. You can impact federal laws by not giving them your body for census and taxes. Back during the Jim crow south, I can’t imagine telling someone that they should hope for change while one of their relatives hangs from a tree or tell a parent of a raped little girl that’s now pregnant they need to be the ones standing and fighting. Fighting looks different and I support those that choose to fight. But no one is the Arbiter of what that looks like.
I agree with your logic. Brain draining red states is far more effective than protesting.
Indiana went for Obama in 2012. Yes, it went for Trump the next two elections, but I’d say that shows there is room for hope in red states.
Louisiana had a dem governor and then the jungle primary screwed us over to red.
Part of the problem is that you can have a state consisting of 300 neckbeards and it will still have Senators and a Representative in Congress, and thus voting power on legislation. I don’t blame people for fleeing, but staying and making states blue will have a bigger effect on change.
Well it comes down to 2 problems though.
First and most obvious hitting that critical mass… before you hit it, everything is hell, you are stuck with BS laws, and you can’t do anything about it. Your vote is worthless.
In my town this november there was one ballot issue… in short, it was summarized as "put a million dollars towards schools, build a new school on an unused empty lot owned by the school system, build a new sports field for one of the schools). Digging deeper that would be paid for by a proporty tax that would cost… up to 100 a year for people making over 150k.
So… the whole town was plastered in “vote no” signs, when I went to the polling place a guy outside asked me to “strongly consider voting no”. I was one of the 17% that voted yes.
So that basically tells me… demographically we need an insane change for the politics of this area to be less stupid, and that’s before factoring in that not only does it involve a HUGE change to reach 51%… but realistically we need more like 65-70% to counteract the inevitable gerymandering that will happen if we ever get anywhere close. I will be staying here, and I’d be happy to encourage all my progressive friends to stay and/or move here. But when it comes down to it, I’d be shocked if there is a swing in the next 50 years, and I certainly wouldn’t encourage anyone in a group that is likely to be directly oppressed to move here.
And what’s more, if you’re going to have kids it’s not fair to raise them in that environment; to draft them into a struggle as they mature; to bequeath upon them the battle that you likely wont live to see won.
I noped myself right out of America to a proper socialised democracy and now i live the American dream rather than spend my life and my kids lives fighting for it.
No. Flee. We’ve learned through experience that turning a red state blue is a pipe dream. You cannot change from within, a state with systemic problems that doesn’t want to change.
I urge everyone in a red state that it capable- to leave ASAP.
That’s the problem though. It leaves those less capable stuck with no hope of their situation ever improving. Conservatives can be outnumbered. The easy thing is not necessarily the right thing.
That sucks for them. But things provenly haven’t gotten better or fixed under the current way of doing things.
Red states thrive on status quo.
You know that we can’t remove them from the country, right? Your way of thinking is exactly why the damned conservatives are as strong as they are. Ultimately you are giving them their best chance at taking even more political power. You should be ashamed of yourself for leaving those weaker and less capable than yourself to just be consumed by dogs. You are a coward and no better than them. One day they will be coming for you. Just know that.
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Right… lol.
Keep doing things the same way and see how things go. Best of luck. I’m safe and sound in my blue state where things work the way they’re supposed to. And we made it here on very little by the way. We both had minimum wage jobs in Florida. We now have thriving lives in Seattle.
If I did that, I would be telling my sister “Sucks to be you. I got out.” She can’t leave because of a custody agreement. She and her children are stuck with these laws. If the number of people you are talking about leave, that will ensure things with never get better for my sister, nieces, and nephew, that the laws will get worse and worse and they will legally not be allowed to move. But according to you, I should just tell her “sucks, I got mine”.
Sooo… status quo because some people have circumstances that don’t allow them to leave? You realize that yelling at people on Internet forums to “GO VOTE!” is pointless, right? There will be no grassroots movement to unseat these cowards from our government. Period. End of story. People have been fighting corruption and overrraching fascists since the early 60’s and it’s exponentially WORSE today than it ever was.
So doing nothing for the next several decades and repeating the past because a few people might get stuck is JUST AS selfish if not moreso as demanding people stay and suffer because if all can’t be helped- NONE must not be helped.
Red states need to be abandoned. Full stop. If you can’t leave- that fucking sucks. But nothing will change if everyone stays. History has proven this time and time again.