The response Harris made to the protestors at the DNC is the best example I can think of. I’m probably exaggerating how much the Harris campaign is relying on this strategy because lemmy is inundated with “DO YOU WANT TRUMP TO WIN???” commenters,

They aren’t even trying to win the messaging war. Instead of pointing out how unbelievably horrible the republican plan of deporting 20 million undocumented migrants, they capitulated and moved further right on immigration.

ignoring a lot of the advice from Hillary Clinton strategists (thank fuck)

idk. They seem to be running on the “if you don’t vote dems you hate black people” shtick that didn’t work in 2016. Lemmy users are eating it up though.

Technically your tax dollars aren’t being used

Basically it’s taxpayer money being used to buy from american companies via a 3rd party

I understand that buying american weapons makes the aid end up back in america but it’s still tax payer money being spent on weapons is it not?

What does aid mean then? Genuinely asking, I know the US sells weapons to Israel but don’t they also give financial aid?

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/world/middleeast/israel-us-aid.html

Idk how I’m supposed to interpret $15 billion in aid as anything other than giving them $15 billion in money/supplies

JK “I’m protecting women” Rowling?

You’re not engaging with what I’m saying in the slightest.

I’m not being nihilistic. Voting for the lesser of two evils is a short sighted strategy that results in politicians like Hillary, Biden, and Harris. I’m arguing that withholding your vote until it’s earned is an effective strategy to bring about change.

Before Biden dropped out everyone on this website was repeating this point over and over, “vote for Biden or we get Trump”. The average voter is not going to respond to that argument, and we know this because the polling for dems skyrocketed when Biden dropped out. Look at Walz’s polling compared to Harris. Despite all the right wing fear mongering, people like and respond to a progressive politician. Stop enabling the dems and hold a fire to their feet. Show them that if they want to get elected all they need to do is put forward policies that actually help people.

I no longer agree with this argument. Dems told voters to vote for Hillary in 2016 to avoid Trump and look what happened. Stop blaming voters and hold dems responsible for their shitty politics. If they want to win the election they need to earn the votes.

They won’t go further left unless we shove them that way.

We have very different opinions on how best to accomplish that. Voting for them unconditionally seems like a bad strategy.

Whats your argument? Everyone should have their sport at the Olympics even if it’s problematic?

You’re not engaging with the conversation, you’re just saying people will be disappointed if break isn’t an olympic sport.

Which one? I see one study saying only 13% of dems have any confidence in Bibi.

To be clear. I’m not suggesting Biden should turn on Israel, he won’t. I’m suggesting he threaten to cut support to Israel unless Bibi stops doing a genocide. If you can find me a study that says most americans don’t support a ceasefire then maybe I’ll change my position.

Copy pasting a previous comment:

I used to agree that people should vote blue if they are pro-Palestine, because Trump will obviously be worse, but I no longer think that. If democrats can rely on simply being better than republicans to win elections, what motivation do they have to shift to better policies? If americans will elect democrats despite them supporting a genocidal dictator, what motivation do they have to stop supporting that genocidal dictator?

What’s the use of having a vote if politicians don’t have to earn it?

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Just days ago the US sent weapons and money to Israel. Within a day Israel used american bombs to kill 93 palestinians while they prayed.

Just off the top of my head, within the past few weeks: Israel assasinated the Hamas negotiator in the midst of negotions. An IDF soldiers raped a palestinian prisoner to death and when they were arrested there were literal riots demanding their release.

Why the fuck is the american government supporting a genocidal dictator like Bibi? It’s actually fucking insane. All Biden needs to do is threaten to stop sending weapons and the genocide ends.

“I live in a must-win swing state. If you promise to end a genocide I will 100% vote for you”

If democrats want to win the election they need to earn votes, it’s as simple as that. If all dems have to do to win elections is not be republicans they will have absolutely zero motivation shift policy and earn votes. Withholding votes is a very powerful tool to make political changes happen and berating people for doing so is ridiculous. You’re criticizing people for exercising their democratic right.

People were saying the exact same thing when Biden was running. Everyone on this website shat on the opinion that dems needed to swap out Biden. “Not voting for Biden is like voting for Trump” etc. Lo and behold, Biden drops out and there is a massive swing in momentum.

The narrative that Biden should stay in the race was literally hurting the democrats chance at winning. Despite everyone’s insistence that Biden was the best chance at beating Trump, it just wasn’t true. Why do operate under the assumption that americans want their leader to suckle Bibi’s balls? Blocking weapons transfers until a ceasefire is the right thing to do and is not going to lose democrats the election.

No pro-Palestinian person is capable of being elected president

This is such a weird assumption. Americans support a ceasefire. Why do we think Kamala will lose the election if she says “Weapon transfers will stop until a ceasefire is reached”? She will instantly gain the rabid support of progressives who will fight tooth and nail to get her elected.

You’re also delusional if you think you’d be voting or campaigning for Harris if she about faced on current Israel policy

This is a strange assumption. I don’t fault anyone for refusing to vote for a party that is complicit in genocide.

I used to agree that people should vote blue if they are pro-Palestine, because Trump will obviously be worse, but I no longer think that. If democrats can rely on simply being better than republicans to win elections, what motivation do they have to shift to better policies? If americans will elect democrats despite them supporting a genocidal dictator, what motivation do they have to stop supporting that genocidal dictator?

What’s the use of having a vote if politicians don’t have to earn it?

Israel cannot survive without US support. I didn’t realize that would be a contentious statement.

Why is exclusion worse than cultural appropriation? I’m excluded from the traditions of the first nations people where I live because I’m not first nations, is that a bad thing?

Most sports are not as recent as break and do not have the same cultural significance. Break was developed by an oppressed people who have historically had their artistic creations repackaged and sold without their involvement. I have no idea whether breaks inclusion in the games is cultural appropriation but I don’t feel like you are giving the proper context to the conversation.

Cultural appropriation is not bullshit. Look at the history of black people in america. Their art forms were copied by white people, sanitized, then sold to the masses with zero credit or compensation given to them. I’m not saying that only black people should be able to perform or enjoy those art forms, but there is a significant difference between respectful imitation and theft. Art forms that were created in large part due to the oppression they were put through, were copied with zero respect or acknowledgement, then repackaged and sold to the very people oppressing them. If you can’t see how that is a bad thing then idk what to say.

To be clear I’m not arguing break being included in the olympics is cultural appropriation, that’s for the culture to decide not me.