I’ll be the first to praise a bill that is actually aimed at helping artist. I’m just being realistic, everything being proposed is catered towards data brokers and the big AI players. If the choice is between artist getting screwed, and artists and society getting screwed, I will choose the former.

I understand it needs to happen but doing the opposite and playing into openAIs hand doesn’t really help imo.

No regulations is going to force them to retroactively take their current models offline.

Public facing doesn’t mean open source.

Never said it was but public facing means you can scrape and use it for ml projects. This has already been decided in courts of law. You can’t use data with personal information or data which needs an account to access. Peruse kaggle for a bit, it’s all scraped datasets.

do you have any idea who I am

I literally don’t, I’m assuming you are part of the 99.999 % of population that didn’t get upset just like I assume you have arms and legs.

Did you get upset about translators online when it happened?

I’m also assuming you use AI on a weekly basis like practically everyone else else.

You can give me a detailed biography and a list of every device, software and app you use, and I’ll stop assuming. Its fine if I’m wrong, point it out but it feels like I’m assuming correctly and instead of admitting it, you would rather get offended.

the open source bit

Paying 20x more than it currently costs to train a model will affect how many models are trained and given away for free.

public domain works, it most definitely is enough

Not enough to give a usable and competitive product. What’s the point of gimping open source so openai cam get all that profit. The jobs will still be lost regardless of if we can run these models on our computer or if a subscription service is the only option.

Artists and writers already struggle more than your usual workers.

I can empathize, I know it sucks. But regulations won’t change any of that. Deviant art will sell its dataset, the artists won’t be compensated and they will still have a hard time because these tools will still be available.

And please don’t call me “mad”

You commented under my post with a trite catch phrases. The tone of your comments aren’t very nice. I don’t know you, I’m going off of how you are saying it and it’s coming off as angry.

I couldn’t give less of a shit what open ai wants, I’m not fighting for open ai, I’m fighting for all the artists

What you want and what openai want are the same thing. Regulations directly benefit them by giving them and Google a easy peasy monopoly. Artists are never getting a dime out of any of this, all the data is already owned by websites and data brokers.

open ai should be investigated for profiting from data they acquired through the loophole of being non-profit.

This is patently false, there isn’t a loop hole. Almost all ml projects use public facing data, it’s accepted and completely legal since it’s highly transformative. What do you think translation software or Shazam uses? You probably already use AI multiple times a week. I’m guessing you didn’t get mad when all the translators lost their job a decade ago.

What do any of the concerns over the way data acquisition happens have to do with open source?

How can a company actually open source anything if the costs are so insanely high. It’s already above a million in compute power for a foundation model, how many open source projects do you expect if reddit or getty gets to tack on an other 60 million. Even worse, Microsoft and Google will absolutely pay a premium to keep it out of the hands of their competition. And no, there is simply not enough data in the public domain and most of it shit tbh.

You are missing the forest for the tree and this is by design. There’s a reason you are bombarded every day by ai bad articles, it’s to keep you mad about it so you don’t actually think about what these regulations mean.

You are being manipulated as to think giving all the power to big data and big AI companies while squashing open source is in your best interest.

Don’t do it at all isn’t an option. Doing it “ethically” means websites like Getty, Deviant art, Adobe getting a fat payday while giving our whole economy to Google and Microsoft. There’s potential serious job loss coming our way, and in your perfect world, all of those jobs lost would go straight into OpenAis or Googles pocket as a subscription service since any other option wouldn’t be afford to build a model.

It is regulatory capture.

Please actually try to understand my points instead of knee jerk reacting all over the place because of their media campaign. OpenAI wants regulations, anthropic got caught literally sending a letter to California telling them they approve the new bills.

I’m being pragmatic, I know any regulation is just meant to build a moat and kill open source, I know the artists are never going to get paid either way. I’d rather not have 2-3 subscription services be our only option and kill open source for what amount to literally no gain for individuals.

Reddit got paid 60 mil for their data, I posted a shitload of content back in the day and still haven’t gotten a dime. I’m sure companies like Getty will do the right thing though, right?

I’m sorry if I’m being harsh but you are being a mouthpiece for the people you hate.

I read the article a bit to fast, you are completely right.

For anyone wondering, here is the relevant bit:

The platforms learn what the student excels in and what they need more help with, and then adapt their lesson plans for the term.

Strong topics are moved to the end of term so they can be revised, while weak topics will be tackled more immediately, and each student’s lesson plan is bespoke to them.

You make a fair point and a tool made specifically for this would probably be a real boon for teachers, but I doubt they incorporated it into their system.

I’m imagining something slapped together. Basically just an AI voice assistant rewording course material and able to receive voice inputs from students if they have questions. I doubt they even implemented voice recognition to differentiate between students.

Edit: I’m imagining it wrong, every student gets his own AI.

That said time will tell and if it shows a bit of promise, it will probably be useful for homework help and what not in the near future. It just seems early to be throwing it in a class. At least, it isn’t a public school where parents wouldn’t have a choice.

I’m very pro ai but this is a terrible idea.

Ignoring the fact that the tech is simply not there for this, how would an AI control the class? They will need a glorified baby sitter there at all times that could be simply teaching.

But I think the worst part of this is that certain kids still need individual attention even if they aren’t special needs and there is no way the AI will be able to pick up on that or act on it.

Recipe for disaster. The part about vr headsets is just icing on the cake.

As much as I hate reddit, I usually go there for this kind of thing since someone is always giving proper updates.

The guy bought an ar-15 and 2000 rounds literally this morning.

Also, anyone know how to spoiler, I forgot.

Edit: updated with more info, lots of gunshots.

Jfc, it just gets worst. Apparently this guy was arrested earlier on terroristic threats and now a bunch of 2A nuts are cruising the area trying to catch him, complicating it for police. Easy way to get shot and might even explain all the reports of gunshots. This is going to get bad.

Edit: Things have quieted down and they can’t find him. They are using thermals so either he killed himself or kidnapped someone and their car. My guess is the first and all the reports were “good guys with guns” shooting at shadows.

Here’s the top comment on the reddit thread:

Things I’ve heard on the scanner (all times ET):

8:30p: asking for an additional helicopter

8:40p: something about a female with prior military experience. Unsure if this was a victim or potential suspect. a female reported someone she knew threatening to shoot people today and had military experience (Thank you u/9leggedfreak)

8:46p: police know the suspect and confirmed they bought an AR-15 with 2,000 rounds this morning.

8:47p: multiple reports of gunshots at a new location (not sharing specifics for police security)

8:52p: second aircraft inbound

8:58p: they’re tracking the subjects cell phone and just got a ping on their location; directing aircraft

9:03p: sister of the suspect has called to ask for protection as the subject has threatened to kill his family members; location withheld for security.

9:04p: flashlights being seen by aircraft in the location where the cell phone pinged

9:07p: someone reporting the shooter is in their front yard

9:15p: suspicious vehicle (Chevy Equinox) found in the middle of the road

9:19p: trying to get the interstate open; sounds like it was overruled

9:22p: ten shots reported at a new intersection

9:23p: “front lawn” report clarified it wasn’t accurate and was “a shooting in the county”

9:25p: multiple callers reporting gunshots; police in motion

9:26p: the abandoned vehicle on Lily Rd was confirmed not to be the shooters (also thank you to u/PM_ME_GLUTE_SPREAD)

9:27p: “fog of war” is causing some confusion for responders; reconsolidating

9:30p: quite a bit of focus on a specific cell tower, presumably the same tower referenced from the cell ping and aircraft directions

9:31p: NYT is reporting 5 people shot on the highway. Victims are in stable condition per their report.

9:33p: another report of a strange person walking through someone’s property

9:33p: route 25 is shut down at 490 (this may not be new)

9:34p: police presence on Bluegrass Rd. same area as prior reports

9:37p: aircraft still working off the single ping from earlier. No further cell pings.

Per the Laurel County Sheriff’s Office: Joseph A. Couch, 32, identified as person of interest. White, 5’10”, approx. 154lbs. Considered armed and dangerous. Contact 606-878-7000 with any information.

9:47p: One area search completed. No shots or suspect found.

9:48p: A black mustang is being sought for someone “last seen”. Unclear if it is part of this search or a separate incident.

9:48p: another report of the shooter near Bluegrass Rd in their front yard; police in motion

9:51p: sounds as if a request for additional help from an ancillary agency was denied; surprised the police lead given the circumstances

9:54p: the 10-88 (phone number) of the subject is known and attempting Signal 6 (calling)

9:55p: state representatives have arrived; advising further shut down of route 25

9:58p: an additional search has been completed (near 490)

10:05p: 490 traffic is still blocked; state department asking to open things up

10:08p: command post rotating police units to bring in fresh folks

10:10p: additional gunshots reported

10:11p: extended family may have information on location, but police are having trouble getting details

10:16p: gunshots reported Bulls Branch Rd about 10 min ago (thanks u/Dr-Shakie). This is about 3mi southwest of Bluegrass.

10:19p: suspicious person with flashlight near someone’s driveway walking toward 490

10:24p: continued clearing of RV parks and other areas

10:27p: police hearing gunshots near Carmichael Community Church / KY-3094 (thanks u/Dr-Shakie and u/mhwnc). This is a little over a mile south of Bulls Br Rd from earlier.

10:35p: reports of subject spotted on Dean Hundley Rd.

10:38p: random people coming out of the woods

10:39p: more reports of sightings on US-25

10:39p: gunshots reported near residence on Fount Hubbard. This is fairly far west from other reports.

10:46p: lots of police relocating; few reports

10:51p: more reports near Byble Rd, not near other reports (thanks Shakie)

10:57p: Kentucky State Police helicopter N10SP very focused along US-25 (thanks u/ImportantDepth8858)

10:58p: someone with a flashlight matching subject description seen; sounds very far from current activities

11:00p: reports of a runner from police

11:02p: possible resident spotting of suspect at (likely, radio is hard to tell) Irvine Ln (thanks u/AtlasRoark and u/LaserLlamaYoMama)

11:05p: ADS-B reporting of the KSP helicopter has gone offline. Haven’t heard them on the radio in some time, either. (thanks u/weemwrangler2) back up now - circling same areas as before

11:15p: suspicious vehicle unexpectedly parked in someone’s driveway; no make and model. Fairly far from the search area and likely unrelated (thanks Shakie/mhwnc)

11:19p: units have arrived at location of reported gunshots on 490

11:20p: detailed report of shooting happening near someone’s property; units heading in that direction

11:22p: Robert’s Creek Rd “dogs are going crazy”

11:22p: police have NOT heard gunshots on 490 (thank you for correction Shakie)

11:25p: reports of shooting and male with a flashlight near Laurel Lake Rd N - units responding

11:30p: an officer is not answering their radio; units responding

11:31p: suspicious van seen with male who fled

11:32p: unresponsive officer is 10-4

11:36p: N10SP looks to be departing their search area, possibly heading to London to refuel, but that’s speculation. Nothing on air about going off-station.

11:40p: unrelated DV calls reported; may result in some confusion in reporting to follow

11:41p: another suspicious vehicle reported in someone’s driveway

11:52p: reported male seen with gun heading toward London on KY-30

11:58p: individual on KY-30 allowed search by officer; no weapons found

12:02a: thermal drones have joined the search

12:22a: N10SP is flying north out of the area after stopping in London. They may be done for the night.

12:23a: suspicious person near school possibly matching suspect description

12:50a - things have significantly quieted down and not much to report. I imagine the evening will be about road blocks and containment, with the fugitive search continuing in the following days.

Continued note: fairly quiet with the exception of other calls; this may end up as a longer-term fugitive search as the false-positive calls slow down. Will keep an ear out for a bit longer.

It’s very weird for a community that’s generally tech savvy. I think there’s a lot of manipulation going on. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that almost only anti-AI articles get posted but I’m also against baseless accusations so I mostly shut up about it.

I mostly agree with what you are saying but I do think sourcing it ethically is a pipe dream.

It’s impossible to get all that data from individuals, it’s way too complicated. What’s already happening is the websites are selling the data and they all have it in their terms of service that they can, even Cara the supposedly pro artist website.

The individuals are not getting compensated and all regulations proposed are aimed at making this the only option. If companies have to pay for all that data while Google and Microsoft are paying premiums to have exclusive access, the open source scene dies overnight.

It really seems to me like there’s a media campaign being run to poison the general populations sentiment so AI companies can turn to the government and say “see, we want regulations, the public wants regulations, it’s a win win”. It’s regulatory capture.

I’m also pro piracy and use it myself for all my media. I still consider it theft even if moral but I understand your point about it stealing from artist. I just don’t think any current regulation will help artists. Personally, I advocate for copy left licenses for anything that uses public data but I sadly have never seen any proposed law or government document mention it.

Should we pretend they don’t—assume everyone is arguing in good faith

It’s a though problem but essentially yes. We should only ban because of content, so anything pro-putin would get the hammer but that comes with it’s own problems. It’s hard to draw the line. Is being pro-isreal an acceptable stance (not morally, thats obvious, but ban wise)? What about being pro-gasoline cars? I’ve been tempted many times to assume people bashing EVs are oil industry shills but it’s really just people that fell for their propaganda and not someone that is actively participating in it. For the most part, downvotes do their job but everyone knows those can easily be manipulated as well.

If the news was about pro-AI bots floating around, I would probably be accused of being one because I’m very outspoken about it when it’s a dissenting opinion on lemmy.

I just don’t think it’s a good standard to keep. I don’t have a solution but I think trying to call out people on it will just end up in people calling each other that when ever an argument goes badly. In the end, I view it as a form of rhetoric.

Where in the article does it mention lemmy? As far as I am concerned, we do not have any influencers and we definitely won’t be on the list.

I’m just saying assuming people are bots is a bad habit. Why not just assume I’m a paid shills and disregard my points? See how easy it is and why it shouldn’t be encouraged?

I know how AI works. I was using collage to show that it’s much less transformative than AI while still being accepted.

It also doesn’t copy bits. It has an internal network of bits and it shifts their weight with each images. It’s learning from the images akin to how a human would, not copying. This is far from a perfect analogy, there’s a mountain that separates a human brain from a neural network, it’s just that both processes would be copying under your definition.

If I write a reference book, I need to reference my source if I’m quoting things. Even if I saw it in 2 different books .

This is a tool to help and guide. In terms of LLMs, trying to get references out of it is just a terrible use case. It’s suppose to be verified at all times and clearly should never be itself quoted.

For images, this is like expecting each artists to reference what influenced them. Having unrealistic thoroughly invented expectations doesn’t mean the tech is failing or bad.

This kind of attitude has some weird “everything has to be true on the internet” vibe. I wouldn’t expect actual truth and references from reddit posts, I don’t understand why people expect it from a guided rng machine.

If I read a book into a podcast and change a few words, take credit and don’t give any to the original author is that ok?

If you read a hundred books and then built a podcast episode on what you learned from all those book, that would be okay and is a lot closer to what llms are doing.

Its just a combined data scraper with some random data.

That’s what AI is. 98% of machine learning is scrapping data and training models on it.

I’d argue they are still most likely just idiots that got wrapped up in foreign propaganda, and not necessarily paid to post on lemmy of all places.

I just think calling people bots and shills has no place in honest discourse and the brushstroke always tends to get bigger and bigger.

It’s asinine to compare AI with block chain. Block chain uses are very limited while my own 60 year old mother uses AI in her work. It depends on your work but there’s immense use cases for AIs, and most people that use it regularly can attest it’s a huge productivity boost even if it isn’t perfect and it has to be verified.

I also suggest you look up copyright laws. It’s clearly transformative. If collage is legal, how can AI not be?

Not to mention that we use AI already everyday. Any app that identifies songs, plants or insects uses AI. So does Google translate or your autocorrect on your phone (I’m not entirely certain about the second one).

If our government won’t force these companies to copyleft the models, the least they could do is not create a walled garden where only Microsoft and Google can afford to train models, something you are advocating without realizing. You are essentially being a mouthpiece for big AI companies and big data companies who are trying to shoot open source in the foot.

Individuals aren’t getting a dime, this is about if we can run these models on our PC or only through their subscription service.

It’s a slippery slope to start assuming people are bots or paid shills. Whos to say everyone that agreed with you at first weren’t bots and then regular people came in and commented their own opinion that went against the first wave of bots?

Not everyone that thinks capitalism is broken is a paid Russian agent. I’m assuming that is what you are referring too. Some are very extreme in their views but the most likely explanation is that they are a combination of stupid and mad.

Everyone that doesn’t agree with me politically basically

Have you ever used Google translate or apps that identify bugs/plants/songs? AI is used in products you most likely use every week.

You are also arguing for a closed garden system where companies like reddit and Getty get to dictate who can make models and at what price.

Individual are never getting a dime out of this. In a perfect world, governments would be fighting for copyleft licenses for anything using big data but every law being proposed is meant to create a soft monopoly owned by Microsoft and Google and kill open-source.

Lemme is very pro-piracy so that’s kind of a silly statement. It’s also worth noting that AI is clearly transformative. Collage is literally legal, how could AI be stealing?

The problem is that it’s making the field hyper competitive by “stealing” jobs, but photoshop and photography did this as well in their time.

No one cried about translators losing their niche because of Google since just like generative AI, it benefits society as a whole in the end.

He said generally intelligent, In the context of the first reply using the term AGI. There is a difference between artificial intelligence and artificial general intelligence.