man you and I have 100% opposite views on obama and biden. I loved obama but felt he got little done in his first term (for biden im comparing like with like so every presidents first term) do to trying to work with republicans to much and I see biden as having gotten up every time something he did was smacked down and got some sort of progress going. He seemed to understand that while the whole loaf would be great, better half than none. Clinton had a lot of things I did not like. drug benefit that was way to much corpo giveaway. and then also I feel he got, at least initially, an easy situation for a democratic president. bush sr lost because he was still classically conservative enough to raise taxes and the economy bill inherited was significantly better than obama or biden. I feel more than any other democrat he coasted and could have fought for much better gains.
Because the neoliberal wing sabotaged the progressive agenda…
The same ones that put Biden as VP, the same ones who handed Biden the primary.
What Obama got done, he got done in spite of people like Biden, but he did all he could.
What Biden got done, was what his donors figured would be just enough progress to keep the poors from rioting, but him and the other neoliberals are the reason we didn’t get the whole progressive party platform voters want…
Like, have you ever heard the phrase “Stockholm Syndrome” before?
Because you’re giving the people holding our heads underwater credit for letting us up when we drown then plunging us back under all over again.
Completely ignoring they’re the ones that keep drowning us.
this is just patently rediculous. biden did not hold obama back or hold that much sway. It only make obama seem like a week president like bush jr being lorded over by chenney or trump being lorded over by musk. obama was better than that.
Yeah I guess I missread your last comment as it seemed to be about biden rather than congress. I think though you are attributing more the way democratic representatives are compared to republicans. Democrats are a centerist party and have always ruled with consensus and don’t get behind a leader like the republicans do. I don’t think they resisted obamas policies any more than they did clintons or carters. Now this is something where biden had a bit of an advantage in that republicans have made it so us vs them that dems line up a bit better than before. Curiously this seems to be one of the things screwing up the republicans as their party is more split now and they never really were good with consensus.
Since the neoliberal takeover in the 90s piggybacked on Bills inherit charisma and the dotcom boom…
Since then we’ve had 12 years of Dem presidents, 8 of those were a young charismatic reminiscent of the actual popular things about Bill, and then 4 years of his VP, because that was the only option next to trump.
The “centrist” experiment doesn’t fucking work.
We can’t keep pretending it does, the country isn’t going to survive it.
Before Bill, there was Jimmy C, also so progressive that the moderate wing sabotaged him. Before that FDR who wanted universal healthcare and was wildly popular.
He also was opposed by the moderate wing of the Dem party. The issue has just been exacerbated since Hillary’s Victory fund nonsense, and while I’d like to assume everyone is aware by now:
For longer than either of us have been alive, progressives dominate general elections when they can get past their own party. When they can’t (except for rare exceptions) the Republican wins.
You’re stuck on “as long as they’re better than a Republican” we’re not talking about if that’s correct.
I’m talking about how we can’t reliable convince voters of that, so as long as we keep doing it, republican presidents keep happening.
We can stop that, by finally picking voters over donors. And selecting the most popular candidate for the general, rather than the one who gets the most donations from billionaires and corporations
It was never an experiment. They have followed the overton window and are what I would call even slightly right of center as far as their governing but a lot of that has been american voters really. Go back to the seventies and you have a left of center but still center party with the republicans being right of center but still center enough to be called center. green is far left but democrats have never really been one. I do blame the superdelegates and I believe without them bernie would have won which would have changed things quite a bit. Not that the delegates specifically effected it with the votes but more in that it creates a larger inner circle that has an outsized effects on the campaigns. As long as republicans keep winning elections I don’t see how the democrats could ever get away from just being better. They have to take into account that republicans are doing things that a fair amount of americans want again and again. Then to they have a lot of cleanup to keep a stable society going.
nope its the voters. We have an extreme right party that is able to capture more than a third of the electorate as a solid base. they have went way right and even though the other party is closer to what theirs used to be than they are now they still go with what they are now. its the voters going right. republicans should not be able to be elected dog catcher with as extreme as they are now. The dem establishment is just moving with the populace. its funny to me that you think the dems are moving people right.
man you and I have 100% opposite views on obama and biden. I loved obama but felt he got little done in his first term (for biden im comparing like with like so every presidents first term) do to trying to work with republicans to much and I see biden as having gotten up every time something he did was smacked down and got some sort of progress going. He seemed to understand that while the whole loaf would be great, better half than none. Clinton had a lot of things I did not like. drug benefit that was way to much corpo giveaway. and then also I feel he got, at least initially, an easy situation for a democratic president. bush sr lost because he was still classically conservative enough to raise taxes and the economy bill inherited was significantly better than obama or biden. I feel more than any other democrat he coasted and could have fought for much better gains.
Because the neoliberal wing sabotaged the progressive agenda…
The same ones that put Biden as VP, the same ones who handed Biden the primary.
What Obama got done, he got done in spite of people like Biden, but he did all he could.
What Biden got done, was what his donors figured would be just enough progress to keep the poors from rioting, but him and the other neoliberals are the reason we didn’t get the whole progressive party platform voters want…
Like, have you ever heard the phrase “Stockholm Syndrome” before?
Because you’re giving the people holding our heads underwater credit for letting us up when we drown then plunging us back under all over again.
Completely ignoring they’re the ones that keep drowning us.
this is just patently rediculous. biden did not hold obama back or hold that much sway. It only make obama seem like a week president like bush jr being lorded over by chenney or trump being lorded over by musk. obama was better than that.
What?
There was a typo I fixed, but I don’t think that changes anything:
I said the people running the DNC who put Biden as VP were the ones that sabotaged Biden.
By 2008 Biden was already considered an empty suit, and was there to calm boomers down about voting for a Black guy.
I never implied Biden was some Machiavellian political genius calling the shots from the shadows.
Like, it seems like you believe that’s what I was talking about and not Dem Senators and House Reprentatives refusing to back his popular policy…
It’s like you’re having a conversation with someone else…
Yeah I guess I missread your last comment as it seemed to be about biden rather than congress. I think though you are attributing more the way democratic representatives are compared to republicans. Democrats are a centerist party and have always ruled with consensus and don’t get behind a leader like the republicans do. I don’t think they resisted obamas policies any more than they did clintons or carters. Now this is something where biden had a bit of an advantage in that republicans have made it so us vs them that dems line up a bit better than before. Curiously this seems to be one of the things screwing up the republicans as their party is more split now and they never really were good with consensus.
Since the neoliberal takeover in the 90s piggybacked on Bills inherit charisma and the dotcom boom…
Since then we’ve had 12 years of Dem presidents, 8 of those were a young charismatic reminiscent of the actual popular things about Bill, and then 4 years of his VP, because that was the only option next to trump.
The “centrist” experiment doesn’t fucking work.
We can’t keep pretending it does, the country isn’t going to survive it.
Before Bill, there was Jimmy C, also so progressive that the moderate wing sabotaged him. Before that FDR who wanted universal healthcare and was wildly popular.
He also was opposed by the moderate wing of the Dem party. The issue has just been exacerbated since Hillary’s Victory fund nonsense, and while I’d like to assume everyone is aware by now:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/
For longer than either of us have been alive, progressives dominate general elections when they can get past their own party. When they can’t (except for rare exceptions) the Republican wins.
You’re stuck on “as long as they’re better than a Republican” we’re not talking about if that’s correct.
I’m talking about how we can’t reliable convince voters of that, so as long as we keep doing it, republican presidents keep happening.
We can stop that, by finally picking voters over donors. And selecting the most popular candidate for the general, rather than the one who gets the most donations from billionaires and corporations
It was never an experiment. They have followed the overton window and are what I would call even slightly right of center as far as their governing but a lot of that has been american voters really. Go back to the seventies and you have a left of center but still center party with the republicans being right of center but still center enough to be called center. green is far left but democrats have never really been one. I do blame the superdelegates and I believe without them bernie would have won which would have changed things quite a bit. Not that the delegates specifically effected it with the votes but more in that it creates a larger inner circle that has an outsized effects on the campaigns. As long as republicans keep winning elections I don’t see how the democrats could ever get away from just being better. They have to take into account that republicans are doing things that a fair amount of americans want again and again. Then to they have a lot of cleanup to keep a stable society going.
They moved the Overton window…
Why do you think progressive policy polls so high across both parties but hasn’t even been a topic in the general?
Or is this one of those “pills aren’t real, everyone’s halfway fascist!” Things?
Like, are you just willfully ignoring polling or have a strong opinion despite no access to the actual quantifiable reality?
nope its the voters. We have an extreme right party that is able to capture more than a third of the electorate as a solid base. they have went way right and even though the other party is closer to what theirs used to be than they are now they still go with what they are now. its the voters going right. republicans should not be able to be elected dog catcher with as extreme as they are now. The dem establishment is just moving with the populace. its funny to me that you think the dems are moving people right.