Your commwnt seems like it comes from a men/women us/them perspective that’s really confusing for me.
The problem isn’t feminism. Feminism hasn’t been damaging. Toxic masculinity has been damaging. The feminist movement would have had a real hard time existing without the suffrage movement that proceeded it. And that movement would have been totally unnecessary without patriarchy/toxic masculinity convincing men of the time women were not human enough to vote.
So … your explanation, to me, at best seems ignorant of a decent chunk of recent history.
If you think the situation before the 19th amendment was ratified was ‘men could vote and women couldn’t’, you’re carrying around an elementary school level understanding of that history.
There were demographics of men who still weren’t allowed to vote after the 19th, who the suffragettes gave zero shits about enabling.
This narrative of ‘feminism fights for men’s issues too’ needs to die. It has never been true on any significant scale, and this rhetoric only started as a means to devalue and justify attacking movements that do seek to address misandry and injustices with primarily/exclusively male victims.
What I’m saying is that men can critique the harms feminism has caused without being misogynist.
What I’m saying is just what I said, that men need a movement similar to feminism that advocates for the issues facing men and boys (in much the same way) that the feminist movement which has advocated (and accomplished some very tangible and positive change regarding) issues facing women and girls. (Edited for clarity)
Feminism is not the answer for the issues facing men and boys. So in that sense, it is kind of an us versus them.
But in much the same sense that equality seems like something is being taken away when you are the oppressor, it can feel much the same way to feminists when they are told that feminism is not the answer to issues facing men and boys.
Equity and equality really are a give and take, and life isn’t always fair. But we can remove systems of oppression for all, and we can work on this together where our issues intersect. But feminism can not speak for the issues facing men and boys, and as the only elephant in the room, it is definitely going to feel like something is being taken away when men and boys and their advocates begin to take steps toward solutions that will help them and their families (which also includes women and girls, so in that sense, advocates for issues facing men and boys also address issues facing women and girls).
Your commwnt seems like it comes from a men/women us/them perspective that’s really confusing for me.
The problem isn’t feminism. Feminism hasn’t been damaging. Toxic masculinity has been damaging. The feminist movement would have had a real hard time existing without the suffrage movement that proceeded it. And that movement would have been totally unnecessary without patriarchy/toxic masculinity convincing men of the time women were not human enough to vote.
So … your explanation, to me, at best seems ignorant of a decent chunk of recent history.
If you think the situation before the 19th amendment was ratified was ‘men could vote and women couldn’t’, you’re carrying around an elementary school level understanding of that history.
There were demographics of men who still weren’t allowed to vote after the 19th, who the suffragettes gave zero shits about enabling.
This narrative of ‘feminism fights for men’s issues too’ needs to die. It has never been true on any significant scale, and this rhetoric only started as a means to devalue and justify attacking movements that do seek to address misandry and injustices with primarily/exclusively male victims.
I gave but a small slice of historical context. You decided I left stuff out on purpose and then made that left out stuff about “male victims.”
🤷♂️
Just reacting to the irony of you saying what you said while accusing another of being ‘ignorant of a chunk of history’.
What I’m saying is that men can critique the harms feminism has caused without being misogynist.
What I’m saying is just what I said, that men need a movement similar to feminism that advocates for the issues facing men and boys (in much the same way) that the feminist movement which has advocated (and accomplished some very tangible and positive change regarding) issues facing women and girls. (Edited for clarity)
Feminism is not the answer for the issues facing men and boys. So in that sense, it is kind of an us versus them.
But in much the same sense that equality seems like something is being taken away when you are the oppressor, it can feel much the same way to feminists when they are told that feminism is not the answer to issues facing men and boys.
Equity and equality really are a give and take, and life isn’t always fair. But we can remove systems of oppression for all, and we can work on this together where our issues intersect. But feminism can not speak for the issues facing men and boys, and as the only elephant in the room, it is definitely going to feel like something is being taken away when men and boys and their advocates begin to take steps toward solutions that will help them and their families (which also includes women and girls, so in that sense, advocates for issues facing men and boys also address issues facing women and girls).