My wish is that we could maybe turn this against facebook(mEtA) and actually get threads users to use other instances. Maybe its possible idk i hope so.
Threads users are basically boomers. They wouldn’t understand federation and instances.
Make it as easy, or preferably easier, to sign up for other instances as it is the threads instance. If we can clear that hurdle, we’d have a chance at getting many of them.
True but You do realize that the whole things is community based unlike Facebook that has trillion dollar at their disposal. Guys like you and me use the free stuff and give advice on reddit and Lemmy but in real life we can’t even write a single line of code. Lol
This is growth for the sake if it? “Chance we getting many of them”?
No outside and lick some public benches, you’ll have a great chance of getting splinters in your tongue and many of them diseases! Go! you need more! Go!
Short sighted mistake. Terrible Idea.
Adopt, Extend, DestroyEmbrace, Extend, Extinguish. That’s the game plan. It’s worked so many times in the past.It only works if people stop using Mastodon once Threads stops federating. ActivityPub is dead they will say.
Yeah and I’m not going to stop using my instance I love it to much, Maybe I will boot up my own personal one if anything. Just glad more people will hopefully understand and can use the Fediverse
When the big corporations leave people just need to reist the “oh the user numbers are so small now, the Fediverse must be outdated” fallacy. Just like XMPP. Still works great, we just need people to use it instead of the silos which are popular now.
People need to reject the idea that “bigger number = better service”. The big players like that line of thinking because it cements their role of dominance and discourages competition. The fediverse will never be as big as Meta and it’s all the better for it. IDK about others but I prefer a small, active userbase with interests similar to my own over an ocean of crap
They don’t need to do that when the fedi is a thousandth of the size of their social networks lol. It’s hilarious that you think they need our user base.
They don’t care about the user base we have today. They want to eliminate the potential user base we may have in a decade.
You can’t really Embrace, Extend, Extinguish an open standard. Anybody can continue to use the unextended version and that’s exactly what would happen if Meta tried it. They can’t force servers to update or implement meta-specific features
he’s not wrong. the migration of the queer community from twitter to threads is great plus i had a great time talking about doctor who over the weekend, it genuinely felt like twitter 2010 again. ive never had that much engagement from mastodon so if federation from threads to mastodon can keep that up, it will be a win win for all users.
if a mastodon instance was fine with hosting libsoftiktok it would swiftly be defederated for lack of moderation by a large amount of instances. No questions asked. No debate. Why is this any different? Do the rules somehow not apply when we’re dealing with facebook?
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Indeed. We don’t even need to talk about EEE or past genocide enabling behavior from facebook. The lack of moderation of threads is plenty reason to defederate. My sanity is valuable enough that I won’t see for myself, but it sure seems like “@libsoftiktokofficial” on threads is the “real deal”.
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You got me to click the link. There is still plenty of transphobic statements on that account, and they’ve been up for 22+ weeks. I very much doubt that nobody has bothered to report those posts, so I’ll assume facebook is fine with a level of transphobia that is enough to make my day worse even by just skimming for 30 sec.
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And I’m saying that there’s very obvious transphobic statements still visible on the most obvious account to check. If facebook doesn’t even bother properly clean up after libsoftiktok then I have no faith in their moderation of less overt transphobia from nobodies.
I see this going only a few directions:
- Threads tries and fails
- Threads succeeds, flexes, annexes
- Equilibrium, and Mastodon/Lemmy become the social network APIs that connect across (like I wish we’d had when G+ was a thing)
As long as they keep their shitty ads on their side i’m fine with it.
I’m really curious how they will approach this. If you can use threads with any other apps, ads free, won’t people just do that?
Right now, if you want to comment on a non-threads user, you have to leave the app. I doubt this will change unless they’ve figured out a way to control the flow.
So threads is even worse than any FOSS app?
Honestly? I don’t trust Meta, but I like that they’re implementing federation.
It will allow me to follow famous people or brands that only have a Threads account through the privacy of my Mastodon/Lemmy/whatever app, so I’m not forced to use Meta’s official apps, which are famously riddled with trackers and whatnot.
The fact that this is possible tells me that functionality will be phased out. No shot Meta would leave all that theoretical cash on the table.
Sure but then anyone whose ever interacted with you, outside of Meta, will be susceptible to Meta’s privacy issues even if they block you or are only on instances that block threads because their previous comments will be on your content. At least from my understanding, that’s how defederating and blocking goes. If I’m wrong, let me know but if not it’s going to get hard knowing who we can interact with in the fediverse if they’re also interacting with threads.
I think we can give facebook/threads the bad end of the bargin IF we have a data protections.
You know how powerful copy-left was for open source? I think we can do the same for Lemmy servers. We can have users agree (formally) that the data on a particular server cannot be used for training llvm’s advertisements, marketing profiles, etc, and make it legally binding.
Even if we don’t federate with them, Meta can still harvest the data so we should add these protections regardless. Maybe there is already something like this and I’m just unaware of it.
If we do add these protections and we ensure that the largest instance (e.g. Lemmy.world) is community controlled, I think it could work well for bringing more content to Lemmy.
What does lemmy.world being the biggest have to do with any of this?
As opposed to a facebook-controlled server being the top search result for Lemmy.
I see why that’s confusing so I edited my comment just now
I think this is the wrong take. If we want Lemmy to be truly community-controlled, we need many small servers, as opposed to the current situation of one server controlling half the userbase. Also, which server is Facebook-controlled? Lemmy.world is in the minority by federating with Threads.
Most of the people preemptively defederating from Threads don’t understand how ActivityPub works.
I hope the instances I’m on stay federated. It’ll be nice having communications with people I’m interested in again, without having to use Meta’s trackers to do so.
Petition to make mastodon.social and .online defederate from meta
I’m pasting an old comment of mine from the official lemmy.world post discussing potential future federation with threads/meta:
I would like to start by expressing my sincere gratitude and appreciation for the hard work you’ve done with lemmy.world. But I am strongly opposed to federating with Threads. Please read this comment in full, as I believe it outlines the sentiment and reservations held by many within our community.
I think it might be helpful to use an analogy that I think will help express the feelings of many of those within our community regarding the problem with the “wait and see” approach.
What’s to say Threads won’t follow in their very well-established footprints under Meta as a company?
If I go to a friend’s house and their child spits in my face every time, I don’t want to go to my friend’s house. I tell them this. The friend again says, “Well this time just might be different, let’s just wait and see!” Meanwhile, this kid spits in my face without fail, every chance they get. There is a very consistent and pervasive pattern of this.
Why should I believe this kid won’t spit in my face all of a sudden, when they’ve taken every single chance they could repeatedly, knowing that it was wrong and not caring what repercussions would befall them? Do you really think this kid is going to refrain from spitting in my face this time?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -
Albert Einstein-someone.Meta/FB have continually demonstrated their core business practices are unethical and that they will continue carrying them out without regard for laws or their users’ well-being. There’s no reason to wait and see. It’s not logical to believe this time will be different.
Threads would bring such a large influx of hateful, racist, violent, bigoted political extremists to the fediverse. They will also do whatever they can to exploit users on this site for their own gain. Their modus operandi has been to exploit their users.
Instead of just conjecture and analogies, I will now provide factual information regarding Meta’s practices as a company.
This really should be obvious by now… but Meta mines and sells their user’s information. Just look at the permissions you have to grant them for Threads… That alone should tell you there’s no reason to “wait and see.” Just look right now. They haven’t changed…
FB users have to agree to all sorts of unethical things in the TOS, including giving Meta permission to run unethical experiments on their users without informed consent. Their first published research was where they manipulated users’ feeds with positive or negative information, in order to see if it affected their mood. It did, and they successfully induced depression in many of their users!
Meta has played a very key role in spreading misinformation, perpetuating dangerous conspiracy theories, and radicalizing the alt right. This is present across nations, but it certainly contributed heavily to the climate of political extremism that led to a mass of insurrectionists to attempt to overthrow my duly elected government…
I will now turn to an article that surmises well the core practices of Meta as a company:
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Elevates disinformation campaigns and conspiracy theories from the extremist fringes into the mainstream, fostering, among other effects, the resurgent anti-vaccination movement, broad-based questioning of basic public health measures in response to COVID-19, and the proliferation of the Big Lie of 2020—that the presidential election was stolen through voter fraud [16];
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Empowers bullies of every size, from cyber-bullying in schools, to dictators who use the platform to spread disinformation, censor their critics, perpetuate violence, and instigate genocide;
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Defrauds both advertisers and newsrooms, systematically and globally, with falsified video engagement and user activity statistics;
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Reflects an apparent political agenda espoused by a small core of corporate leaders, who actively impede or overrule the adoption of good governance;
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Brandishes its monopolistic power to preserve a social media landscape absent meaningful regulatory oversight, privacy protections, safety measures, or corporate citizenship; and
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Disrupts intellectual and civil discourse, at scale and by design.
I ask you now if you truly believe this is the sort of player you want on the Fediverse? Do you really want to federate lemmy.world with such a blatantly immoral and detrimental corporation?
I have really enjoyed my time here on Lemmy.world and have so greatly appreciated the hard work of you and your team. I have been donating to you to help with the costs of running this instance.
However, federating with Threads contradicts my philosophy and ethical principles, and I will be sadly canceling my donations and finding a new home should we federate with Threads in the future. I firmly believe that most users on lemmy.world share this sentiment. I hope this comment helped express the resistance and fears of our community.
Once again, I appreciate all the work you guys have done. But I respectfully and severely dissent on this issue.
Why should I believe this kid won’t spit in my face all of a sudden, when they’ve taken every single chance they could repeatedly, knowing that it was wrong and not caring what repercussions would befall them?
Because Fedi puts up a glass window.
They simply can’t do anything to hurt the Fedi. The Fedi was built specifically to resist that kind of intrusion. They can only hurt themselves, and help their users by showing them how easy it is to transition to a platform that isn’t riddled with ads and data-mining while still remaining connected to their family and friends/news/etc.
There is no data for Meta to mine by federating that isn’t already publicly available. Federating does not suddenly give them unfettered access to every connected server.
The examples I listed were to demonstrate the fact that meta/FB is a bad actor, not that all are applicable to lemmy.
Also, the lemmy.world team admitted that lemmy lacks the moderation tools required for federation with threads.
This doesn’t pair well with the extremist content popular and promoted on threads. And I’m tired of hearing about the false solution people keep pretending exists in the form of personally blocking instances.
That may solve me not seeing the content, but what about my fellow users? What about people browsing without a profile/not signed in?
I care about more than myself. I care about the health of fellow human beings on this site, and I don’t want Threads to increase the amount of radicalization and extremism on this site. I don’t want more people to fall victim to radicalization. I have lost family to qanon/maga cults and I think we need to protect the integrity of the fediverse.
When players like threads/meta try to join in, I believe it is the responsibility of admins of the large instances to protect their users and refuse to federate with them. Period.
The examples I listed were to demonstrate the fact that meta/FB is a bad actor
Okay but, we all know that already. This discussion is about federating with Lemmy/Fedi.
Okay but, we all know that already. This discussion is about federating with Lemmy/Fedi.
Tell that to the astroturfers simping for FB/Threads…
And do you understand how you reinforce an argument with supporting evidence? I wanted to establish factual information supporting a clear history of the company’s bad practices. That was/is relevant to consideration of federating with a platform.
In fact, lemmy.world has already defederated with instances due to failure to moderate far-right extremism. So why would they federate with Threads when far-right extremism is already a systemic issue and they have admitted lemmy lacks the necessary moderation tools to manage Threads federation?
It seems obvious to me that is a bad idea and it would cultivate a more toxic user experience with more recruitment for radicalism/extremism.
Tell that to the astroturfers simping for FB/Threads…
And do you understand how you reinforce an argument with supporting evidence?
Wow, the fucking hypocrisy of those 2 statements in the same breath. Anybody who considers that this could actually be good for the fedi is “simping for Meta”? What a fucking child.
That was/is relevant to consideration of federating with a platform.
It is not even in the slightest, unless such federation somehow supports Meta, which, to my knowledge, it does the opposite. If you’d like to provide evidence to the contrary, I’m all ears. If you want to pull random accusations out of your ass about anyone who disagrees with you, you can take that shit elsewhere.
There’s no hypocrisy; you’re just stating a false equivalence. Not to mention totally ignoring the entire argument about radicalization on threads/inability to moderate it on lemmy.
And you keep stating that my points establishing character in regard to Meta/Threads are irrelevant, but you aren’t making a good argument as to why. You fixate on that as a strawman argument while ignoring my point that lack of moderation on threads will negatively affect fediverse communities with toxic/extremist content.
You’re arguing like a petulant middle schooler with ad hominem and strawman tactics. Get back to me if you can speak like a grown-up. Otherwise I’m not going to engage with you. (Before you “no u” me with another false equivalence, my remarks were not on the same personal attack level.)
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I wouldn’t mind followers-only federation of Threads. My issue would be that the flow of posts from there (if it reaches the federated timeline anyway) would be a burden for moderation.
And of course .world is doing exactly what I expected it to do: it’s going along with Threads integration.
And judging from how it’s been set up and run to function almost exactly like old Reddit, with corporate censoring, PR-style talk from admins, blatant refusal to address and fix serious problems, and monopolizing Lemmy by herding everyone else under its umbrella instead of letting people migrate to niche servers which was the intent of the fediverse in the first place, it stands to reason the .world admins are either working directly for Threads or being paid off by Meta to do this.
It’s time for everyone to just leave and go back to making their own websites again.
That is the beauty of the Fediverse. If you don’t like how an instance is run, you can easily switch to another instance in Lemmy 0.19. We need to think of Lemmy instances as countries with their own laws, culture, and policies. So in my opinion, if you don’t like how an instance is run, you can easily switch to another instance.
Except you can’t, because this is not a technical problem, it’s a political problem everybody is deliberately ignoring because they know it is real and they know of the extremely negative implications of them.
The vast majority of Lemmy traffic is from .world. No matter what instance you’re on, most activities happen from .world and .world content floods the feeds of all the others.
.world insists on federating with Meta.
Therefore NO instance is safe, because you’ll always be forced to deal with it indirectly.
That is the insidiousness of .world I tried to warn you all about.
I fucking told you all .world was monopolizing Lemmy and that it was doing it in a way that it implemented the same kind of soft censorship, favoritism and authoritarianism Reddit imposed on its users, and it was herding everyone toward it in the same way old social media did to users in the 10’s.
And did a single one of you listen to me? Noooooo. You were too busy getting mad that your investment in a new website was being deconstructed and that you were being burdened with the mental labor of investing yourselves somewhere else.
This is happening 100% because you are all the most spoiled, entitled, selfish, lazy dumbasses history has ever seen, and you deserve every ounce of suffering Meta is going to impose on you and the fediverse as a result.
You’ve been warned
Instances that defederate with threads wont see content from threads even on other instances that may federate with them.
As an example here lemmy.ml federates with hexbear and world but hexbear and world dont federate with each other. On lemmy.ml posts world users cant see any comments made from people on hexbear and vice versa
- A post in the view of .world: https://lemmy.world/post/9466410 (282 comments)
- The same post in the view of hexbear: https://hexbear.net/post/1304992 (76 comments)
- The same post in the view of lemmy.ml: https://lemmy.ml/post/9207671 (306 comments)
So they wont have to deal with them indirectly
The fact that this guy’s only rebuttal is “well, just go to tankie instances” is all you need to know.
Didnt say to go anywhere, just said that people on .world cant see content from hexbear on lemmy.ml posts shown by those comment counts above even though lemmy.ml federates with hexbear. (hexbear used since its the best example of a large blocked instance that can showcase this well. Could have also used .world, .ml and beehaw and same point stands)
Same logic would apply to .world federating with threads. People on lemmy.dbzer0 for example wont see content from threads on .world posts or communities even if .world federates with threads
Just wanted to put a counterpoint to you saying people would need to deal with it indirectly which isnt true proven by the above. You dont need to strawman it by making it a different point
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.
Since you’re obviously one of the shills arguing in bad faith about it, know that you can’t manipulate everyone into accepting corporate fists up their assholes. We will stop you one way or another.
bring paid off by Meta
If you think Meta cares the least about some little forum with some thousands of users, you are delusional.
Shill harder, and tell me how to get in on that racket. How much is the employee health insurance?
I not even shilling. I have no interest in Threads whatsoever. But you guys are totally delusional.
adam posted more details tonight :) can’t wait honestly. i love how pumped adam is about activitypub and interoperability!
