I strongly disagree there. I argue that not even humans have free will, yet we’re generally intelligent so I don’t see why AGI would need it either. In fact, I don’t even know what true free will would look like. There are only two reasons why anyone does anything: either you want to or you have to. There’s obviously no freedom in having to do something but you can’t choose your wants and not-wants either. You helplessly have the beliefs and preferences that you do. You didn’t choose them and you can’t choose to not have them either.
Free will is what sets us apart from most other animals. I would assert that many humans rarely exert their own free will. Having an interest and pursuing it is an exercise of free will. Some people are too busy surviving to do this. Curiosity and exploration are exercises of free will. Another would be helping strangers or animals - a choice bringing the individual no advantage.
You argue that wants, preferences, and beliefs are not chosen. Where do they come from? Why does one individual have those interests and not another? It doesn’t come from your parents or genes. It doesn’t come from your environment.
It’s entirely possible to choose your interests and beliefs. People change religions and careers. People abandon hobbies and find new ones. People give away their fortunes to charity.
By free will I mean the ability to have done otherwise. This, I argue is an illusion. What ever the reason is that makes one choose A rather than B will make them choose A over and over again no matter how many times we rewind the universe and try again. What ever compelled you to make that choise remains unchanged and you’d choose the same thing every time. There’s no freedom in that.
I also don’t see a reason why humans would be unique in that sense. If we have free will then what leads you to believe that other animals don’t? If they can live normal lives without free will, then surely we can too, right?
I don’t know where our curiousity or the desire to help the less fortunate comes from. Genes and environmental factors most likely. That’s why cultural differences exists too. If we all just freely chose our likes and not-likes then it’s a bit odd that people living in the same country have similar preferences but the people on the other side of the world are significantly different.
Also, have you read about split brain experiments? When the corpus callosum is severed which prevents the different brain hemispheres from communicating with each other we can then with some clever tricks interview the different hemispheres separately and the finding there is that they tend to have vastly different preferences. Which hemisphere is “you”?
I want chocolate, I don’t eat chocolate, exercise of free will.
By your logic no alcoholic could possibly stop drinking and become sober.
In my humble opinion, free will does not mean we are free of internal and external motivators, it means that we are free to either give in to them or go against.
I want chocolate, I don’t eat chocolate, exercise of free will.
There’s a reason you don’t eat chocolate - likely health concerns or fear of weight gain. Your desire to stay healthy is stronger than your desire to eat chocolate. But you can’t take credit for that any more than you can blame an alcoholic for their inability to resist drinking.
I am curious to hear why you insist it’s inevitable. What intrinsic properties of the universe make you believe that we don’t have any choice and all our actions are set in stone?
What is inevitable? At no point have I claimed that our actions are set in stone. That would imply fatalism which equally suggest that things can happen without anything causing them to happen.
Your choice of words is an analytical failure it says that the the will somehow sitting on top of all those processes rather than being a function of them.
I don’t think my wording implies that the will is sitting on top of those processes, but rather that it’s an emergent property of them. You’re the one who’s implying a false dichotomy - just because our choices might be influenced by prior causes doesn’t mean we don’t have agency. I’m asking what makes you think our actions are predetermined, not what makes you think we have some kind of magical free will that defies causality. Can you actually address the question I asked, rather than nitpicking my phrasing?
If your choices are a function of prior events and an emergent property of complex but deterministic processes where does agency come in? We are a complex deterministic process that simulates our own self to both predict a much more complex unconscious self and write rules to influence it going forward.
We call this process being conscious even when its writing just so stories after the fact.
For me. I think everything is physical, and there’s always a cause and effect. There is no magical non-physical consciousness. A combination of your genetics, experiences, and environment determine the “choices” you make/actions you take. Free will is an illusion, IMO.
I strongly disagree there. I argue that not even humans have free will, yet we’re generally intelligent so I don’t see why AGI would need it either. In fact, I don’t even know what true free will would look like. There are only two reasons why anyone does anything: either you want to or you have to. There’s obviously no freedom in having to do something but you can’t choose your wants and not-wants either. You helplessly have the beliefs and preferences that you do. You didn’t choose them and you can’t choose to not have them either.
Free will is what sets us apart from most other animals. I would assert that many humans rarely exert their own free will. Having an interest and pursuing it is an exercise of free will. Some people are too busy surviving to do this. Curiosity and exploration are exercises of free will. Another would be helping strangers or animals - a choice bringing the individual no advantage.
You argue that wants, preferences, and beliefs are not chosen. Where do they come from? Why does one individual have those interests and not another? It doesn’t come from your parents or genes. It doesn’t come from your environment.
It’s entirely possible to choose your interests and beliefs. People change religions and careers. People abandon hobbies and find new ones. People give away their fortunes to charity.
By free will I mean the ability to have done otherwise. This, I argue is an illusion. What ever the reason is that makes one choose A rather than B will make them choose A over and over again no matter how many times we rewind the universe and try again. What ever compelled you to make that choise remains unchanged and you’d choose the same thing every time. There’s no freedom in that.
I also don’t see a reason why humans would be unique in that sense. If we have free will then what leads you to believe that other animals don’t? If they can live normal lives without free will, then surely we can too, right?
I don’t know where our curiousity or the desire to help the less fortunate comes from. Genes and environmental factors most likely. That’s why cultural differences exists too. If we all just freely chose our likes and not-likes then it’s a bit odd that people living in the same country have similar preferences but the people on the other side of the world are significantly different.
Also, have you read about split brain experiments? When the corpus callosum is severed which prevents the different brain hemispheres from communicating with each other we can then with some clever tricks interview the different hemispheres separately and the finding there is that they tend to have vastly different preferences. Which hemisphere is “you”?
I want chocolate, I don’t eat chocolate, exercise of free will.
By your logic no alcoholic could possibly stop drinking and become sober.
In my humble opinion, free will does not mean we are free of internal and external motivators, it means that we are free to either give in to them or go against.
Our universe is predeterministic. Block Universe (aka Eternalism).
Check mate.
It’s not according to quantum physics we observe
There’s a reason you don’t eat chocolate - likely health concerns or fear of weight gain. Your desire to stay healthy is stronger than your desire to eat chocolate. But you can’t take credit for that any more than you can blame an alcoholic for their inability to resist drinking.
I am curious to hear why you insist it’s inevitable. What intrinsic properties of the universe make you believe that we don’t have any choice and all our actions are set in stone?
What is inevitable? At no point have I claimed that our actions are set in stone. That would imply fatalism which equally suggest that things can happen without anything causing them to happen.
Your choice of words is an analytical failure it says that the the will somehow sitting on top of all those processes rather than being a function of them.
I don’t think my wording implies that the will is sitting on top of those processes, but rather that it’s an emergent property of them. You’re the one who’s implying a false dichotomy - just because our choices might be influenced by prior causes doesn’t mean we don’t have agency. I’m asking what makes you think our actions are predetermined, not what makes you think we have some kind of magical free will that defies causality. Can you actually address the question I asked, rather than nitpicking my phrasing?
If your choices are a function of prior events and an emergent property of complex but deterministic processes where does agency come in? We are a complex deterministic process that simulates our own self to both predict a much more complex unconscious self and write rules to influence it going forward.
We call this process being conscious even when its writing just so stories after the fact.
For me. I think everything is physical, and there’s always a cause and effect. There is no magical non-physical consciousness. A combination of your genetics, experiences, and environment determine the “choices” you make/actions you take. Free will is an illusion, IMO.